Immigrant Parents and Their "Third Culture" Children

Hetal Baman (00:00:03) - Throughout the 20th and 21st centuries, the United States of America became very well known as the great melting pot. Immigrants from all over the world came to this country with the dream that one day they could become Americans no matter what their origins were. But just like my parents who immigrated from India, settled in the States and had their own children, a k a me and my brother, many immigrants find it difficult to pass the full culture of their homeland onto their children. And this could be due to multiple reasons, but because of this, many children of immigrants find themselves between cultures, sometimes confused and unsure of how to act, how to speak, and more. What parts of their culture do they adopt? What parts do they let go of? Today I interview Akinyi Adoyo. She says that with the advent of globalization and immigrants settling in the United States, there isn't a comprehensive approach to cultural preservation for the next generation who are referred to as third culture kids, born and raised in Kenya.

Hetal Baman (00:01:22) - Akinyi Adoyo is a mother, sister, and daughter who believes deeply in the African philosophy of Ubuntu. She co-founded and directs Friends of Africa, a non-profit organization that focuses on culture, passion, and connection. Friends of Africa is a flagship program of Afro Kidd Venture that mainly focuses on our third culture, kids residing in Houston, Texas during the day. She is head of marketing at Medical Bridges, a nonprofit organization that collects medical equipment and supplies from the US and redistributes them to healthcare workers across nations. She passionately believes that we can rewrite our stories, heal and thrive through deliberate and structured collaborative efforts. To learn more about Akin, check out her full bio in the show notes linked in the description of this episode. My name is  and this is the Global Health Pursuit.

Hetal Baman (00:02:32) - Uh, can you, I'm just so excited. Like we were chatting before I hit record and I think we were already vibing. I'm excited for this. When I got to know about you, you know, it came through an email from Walter Ulrich, who's the C e O of Medical Bridges. He was like, you need to interview Akinyi. She has a great story, you know, and she works for us now. And I was like, I need to get to know her. So I reached out and I , I think it took me like 25 minutes before she finally started talking about what she did, her community work. And I'm like, girl, you too humble. Like you need to talk about all of this stuff. At that moment I was like, okay, yes. Like I need to get her on the podcast. I had to pry the information out of you, but I got to it. I got to it. So, uh, can you tell me a little bit about yourself, your background, where you were born, and how you ended up in the States?

Akinyi Adoyo (00:03:32) - All right, thank you so much, HETA. This is, uh, you are too kind and Walter is kind as well. So again, my name is, uh, Kenya Doyle. I was born in Nairobi, Kenya. I was born to a teacher, an entrepreneur, an amazing mother, and an amazing father who is I consider philosopher and also a medical scientist. So we grew up in, you know, lacking nothing. Essentially. I'm the first born to four children, so I'm first of four. And so I was like the mom, the second mom to my siblings. So born and raised in Nairobi. Went to school in Nairobi, primary school, secondary school. I went to boarding like many Kenyans. And then right after high school I went to college for just one semester. And in her infinite wisdom, my mom thought it would be a good idea to send me all the way to Arkansas

Hetal Baman (00:04:26) - . I was just like, you're going from Kenya to Arkansas. Like, let me just ask you first, like, what was that culture shock like?

Akinyi Adoyo (00:04:35) - Okay, so you know, you have this idea of what America looks like and you know, I went to Magnolia, Arkansas, which is a small town, a university town, and you know, we had one Walmart, one McDonald's, . So it was a really, really, you

Hetal Baman (00:04:49) - Know, like this is what America

Akinyi Adoyo (00:04:51) - Is,

Hetal Baman (00:04:52) - What, where are the buildings? .

Akinyi Adoyo (00:04:57) - I know it was, it was, uh, it was a shock, but I think in the beginning I was more homesick than anything. So I was a little bit too much in my feelings to even notice what was happening around me. Mm-hmm.

Hetal Baman (00:05:10) -  feel. And

Akinyi Adoyo (00:05:11) - I think, yeah, I think that's pushed me forward to, you know, just, you know, one, one day at a time, one step at a time. So actually I had a choice of going to India to do law or come to the States to, I don't think I had specified what, what cause I was gonna take. But the paperwork for Southern Arkansas University came in first. So I was able to go through the process and ended up in Arkansas, Magnolia, Arkansas, .

Hetal Baman (00:05:41) - So how did you learn about the Gooing in India? You know,

Akinyi Adoyo (00:05:45) - That's a very good question. I, I think my mom got it through a friend. I was doing CCP at the time at Strathmore College in Nairobi. So I was tAkinyig accounting and one of my classes was business law. Mm. And I loved, I fell in love with, with law and so I was thinking, okay, maybe I can do law and then come back and practice in Kenya. So that's how it happened. That

Hetal Baman (00:06:09) - Is so interesting. Okay. So you studied in Arkansas mm-hmm. . What was the plan after that?

Akinyi Adoyo (00:06:16) - Okay, so my plan going to Arkansas was like, you know, I will go through school, get my degree. As soon as I receive my degree I will head to the airport. ,

Hetal Baman (00:06:26) - You already packed your bags.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:06:28) - Exactly, exactly. So I had no idea I was gonna stay here this long, 20 something years later. But yeah, so that was the plan. The plan was to study and then go back home and you know, I didn't really have a solid plan after going back home.

Hetal Baman (00:06:44) - But you didn't go back home?

Akinyi Adoyo (00:06:46) - I did not go back home. So I stayed in Atkins for one semester and then I had a cousin in Houston who encouraged me to move to Houston because I think there were more opportunities in Houston. And so I moved to Houston, ended up going to University of Houston and that's when, you know, life happened. I had my son got married and then got divorced and then  life happened, continued. And now I'm here. .

Hetal Baman (00:07:16) - That's too funny. You have a child in the US mm-hmm. . And you grew up in Kenya. How did that change your perspective? How was it different having a child here and what did you expect?

Akinyi Adoyo (00:07:31) - Well, I don't think I had any expectations, but it was different in terms of I didn't realize how African I was until I became a mother.

Hetal Baman (00:07:42) - Oh wow. A lot of people, uhhuh,  I think feel that you don't realize how much the culture impacts you until something big happens in your life. Exactly.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:07:53) - You know, it could be something as small as food, you know, what you want to feed your child, you know, and it's either not available or not easily available or, you know, because of the hustle and bustle of your life, you need, you're not able to prepare it as you want to. And you know what used to be the job of a whole village is now left to one person or two people to do. Yes. You know? So it gets overwhelming and it gets lonely at times. You know, the cultural aspect of what makes culture, whether it's language dressing, food, all that is taken away from you. And of course that's not, I don't think it's deliberate, but you know, because you're in a different culture, you have to now learn how to do things differently without guidance. That

Hetal Baman (00:08:41) - Is so huge, that point that you made. Because even in like the Indian culture, right? Every time I go to India, it's like your neighbors and your neighbors neighbors and everybody around you, they're all congregating being like, how can I help you? How can I, you know? Exactly. And that is so true cuz in the US it almost feels like we don't even know who lives next to us.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:09:04) - Right, exactly. Wow. Exactly. And I think we underestimate the therapeutic nature of culture and how, how we embody our bodies when you are in a familiar place, you know, so you can leave your house and maybe go get, you know, groceries and someone will see you struggling maybe with a ca and help you, you know, in America, for the most part, we are, you know, constantly worried about the next thing, the next thing. And you're not even noticing what's happening around you. So it can be overwhelming.

Hetal Baman (00:09:37) - It's more about individualism versus community.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:09:41) - Exactly. There's

Hetal Baman (00:09:42) - A quote on your website, friends of Africa, 50 three.org. It says, the culture of a people is their identity as it affords them do recognition. There is no denial of the fact that what makes any human society is its culture a Latin word, which is derived from calor, meaning to practice or cherish for a society to be societal, it must be cultural. Therefore society and culture are also intertwined. That is so profound.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:10:14) - It sums it up, right?

Hetal Baman (00:10:16) - It does, it really does. Now that leads me into my next question for you. I think that your work that you do in your community, it revolves around this one word. And I want you to explain it to our listeners. Ubuntu, is that how you pronounce it?

Akinyi Adoyo (00:10:35) - Yes. That's how you say Ubuntu. What

Hetal Baman (00:10:37) - Does it mean? What does it mean to you?

Akinyi Adoyo (00:10:39) - To me, so Ubuntu is a South African philosophy that centers human collaboration as opposed to individualism. So it highlights the interconnectedness. So it means, it literally means I am because you are . So it means I am because you are, and to me it means that your personality takes on the environment you're in mm-hmm.  and the environment you're in is composed mostly of people, you know. Right. So for example, if, if you go to work, you act a certain way, you speak a certain way. Right. If you go to, you know, school or your your child's school, you have to be a certain way. And so it's important to be conscious of who is around us and just be conscious of how we are responding to what's around us.

Hetal Baman (00:11:31) - That reminds me of that saying, you take on the personality of the five closest people that are around you.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:11:38) - Correct? Yes. Wow.

Hetal Baman (00:11:39) - And also, I think that this is even more important within immigrant families and like first generation children. Like, I mean, I'm a first generation south Asian American, and what you say is so true. You know, if I go to work, then I act a certain way. I'm very, it's like much more professional. You know, you have to put on this persona. Then you come home and I'm like speAkinyig in a Gujarati accent. Uhhuh , I'm still speAkinyig English to my grandmother. It's mm-hmm.  Gujarati or the way that I speak with my parents is very, very different because I feel like that way if I speak the way that I speak in a corporate environment, they're probably not gonna understand me as much. Right. You know? Right, right. And it's like a switch

Akinyi Adoyo (00:12:20) - Called switching. Right? Right. Yes. Yes.

Hetal Baman (00:12:24) - So how have you seen this in third culture children, specifically in the African culture? Because that's what you are focused in mm-hmm.  and, and that's what you're immersed in. Mm-hmm. , first I want you to define what third culture kid means.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:12:42) - All right. A part culture kid is a kid that is born in a culture other than their parents' culture, or they've spent a significant part of their life in a culture that's not their parents' culture. So they have their parents' culture, they have their culture where they're, they're in, and then they have that pad space that they're trying to, you know, the

Hetal Baman (00:13:02) - Limbo.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:13:03) - Exactly. , you're trying to, you know, put a little bit of, you know, American culture and a little bit of African culture. So my passion with African third culture kids is unique because it's a, an extra layer. They don't fit into their African American category fully, and they don't fit in, of course the white America. And then in some cases, we don't give them our culture as much as we should. They occupy this space where, you know, they're trying to negotiate these worlds. And then on top of that there's, you know, there's the bullying at schools. There's of course the racial issues that we, you know, see every day the microaggressions that are even worse than the blatant ones. So they, they go through way more than they can even articulate. So that's where my heart is, you know, to find a way to create spaces where they can just be free to be whatever they want to be. They can, you know, land their culture if they want to. They can figure out what's, you know, happening in their minds when it comes to negotiating that space, that American space that is, that can be so toxic at times, especially in, in schools

Hetal Baman (00:14:12) - Because kids are mean. I

Akinyi Adoyo (00:14:14) - Know. So some of the spaces can be, we've done things like, you know, use play like Kenyan games. I've taught them  because that's what I know. But the goal is just to create that spark, create a safe space for not just the kids but the parents. Cause you know, a lot of times we tell them to just to be their best, but we are also doing what we are telling them not to do. We are performing. Right. You know, they're seeing us perform in the workplace. They're seeing us perform at school, and they're like, , who are you? You know? So it's hard to give what we don't have. So in in providing these spaces, they're able to see us, us in a different light. Relaxed. I mean, when you feel safe, you can create better and you can be a little more introspective.

Hetal Baman (00:14:59) - In terms of the direct experiences that you've had with your son, can you elaborate on any like specific times that you've felt like this is so needed?

Akinyi Adoyo (00:15:12) - You know, when it's black history month, you know, you have kids just being taught that exceptional. We go to the extreme, you know, exceptionalism of blackness and they're highlighting, you know, oh, this person came from this background and now they are a scientist, a doctor, a lawyer. But we fail to see the beauty in the ordinariness of being African. I think that takes away a lot because you know, you are indirectly telling the children that unless you have this things behind your name or unless you have, unless you're doing well in these ways, then you're not successful. You know? And then we miss out on the little things, the little extraordinary ordinary things that make them African. So that has been something that I did a lot, especially in primary school where we, you know, we'd go, I would add some cultural elements like food, music, you know, it could just be simple things like that to get to know culture better. Another thing is comments about, you know, his looks, whether it's his hair, it could be something else. You know, you cut your hair today looks good, implying that however your hair grows out of your head right. Is not professional. It's not good enough for you to come to school with, even in school projects being told what is good for that subject. It's been a struggle dealing with that. Mm-hmm. . And so I'm looking forward to the end of schooling for him. .

Hetal Baman (00:16:45) - Oh my gosh. Wow. That point that you made around when schools and corporations talk about black history month and they talk about all the exceptional people that come out of it. I didn't realize even that can be detrimental to a society because then it makes you almost feel like, oh, I need to be a doctor, I need to be a lawyer, I need to be a scientist. Right. In order to

Akinyi Adoyo (00:17:13) - Right.

Hetal Baman (00:17:14) - To be recognized and mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:17:17) - .

Hetal Baman (00:17:18) - Yeah. Thank you for sharing that because I didn't realize that.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:17:21) - Yeah. It makes you feel inadequate. Right. And then when that manifests into different, what we call behavioral issues, then we send the child to seek psychological help as opposed to looking at the toxic environment. Right.

Hetal Baman (00:17:35) - It's like the problem is within instead of the actual environment.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:17:38) - Exactly. Wow. Exactly. And then we have all this I city 10 codes that we assign this child and call them, you know, by not to, you know, not to say that that's

Hetal Baman (00:17:51) - Not a real thing,

Akinyi Adoyo (00:17:52) - A medical doctor. Yeah, exactly. But we individualize psychology so much without even considering all these microaggressions that, you know, that makes this child feel inadequate in, you know, that shows up in various ways in how we interact with one another, how we interact with them and how they interact with their peers.

Hetal Baman (00:18:13) - Wow. Like what are some examples of seeing changes within these kids over time since they've started within your programs? Because I think that that could be so rewarding for you.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:18:27) - The example that I can think about mostly is, in the beginning when I first started with the kids, I had a couple of kids that were shy about using their African name. Ah, yes.

Hetal Baman (00:18:39) - Mm-hmm.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:18:39) - . And at one point, yeah, at one point I called one of, I call them my children, none of my children, I call them by their African name. And they cried.

Hetal Baman (00:18:49) - Oh wow.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:18:50) - And that broke my heart, you know, and then at another point, you know, another child who was able to speak is Swahili would not speak it. But then years later, these same kids are embracing their names, they're embracing their culture, the language, and they want to learn more. And the ones that knew how to speak it, want to retain it. And that's, you know, that's very encouraging, you know, and it takes a village. It's not just me, it's the parents. It's people who agree to, you know, offer the spaces for us to, to just be us and, and just figure it out and just ask questions without seeking answers or without creating such a structured environment for them to learn. They can just, you know, we can let the chips fall where they may

Hetal Baman (00:19:37) - And let them, let them decide what they wanna do with this information.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:19:42) - Exactly.

Hetal Baman (00:19:43) - That is so empowering for these kids. Ugh, I love it. I just love it. Wow. Wow.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:19:51) - Yeah,

Hetal Baman (00:19:53) - I'm, you know, there's so many things that I can relate to. Obviously my background is not African, but you know, in the South Asian culture, it seems there's so many parallels. The thing that you said about how the parents don't give them the culture as much as they want to, for many different factors. Like my parents were, they were busy working and they were trying to perfect their English and they were trying to understand how the school systems worked here. Like it was very, it's very difficult when you don't have the time or space to even give that, you know? And for you to be able to bring them a space that would otherwise not be available for them. I think that is really huge. Because I often think about in the future, like once I'm married and have kids, what is the culture that I'm going to be giving my kids? And that's often something that I think about because 18 culture is so, so beautiful. I would hate to lose on that, you know?

Akinyi Adoyo (00:21:00) - Right, right.

Hetal Baman (00:21:02) - Yeah. And so I just love this conversation Akinyi. I hope that when people listen to this, if they're in the Houston area to get involved. Mm-hmm. . Well thank you so much for this time, Akinyi.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:21:15) - Thank you.

Hetal Baman (00:21:17) - I just feel so blessed to even have met you because you give off such a beautiful aura. You're

Akinyi Adoyo (00:21:22) - So kind. You're super kind,

Hetal Baman (00:21:25) - And yeah, I hope we keep in touch.

Akinyi Adoyo (00:21:26) - Definitely We will.

Hetal Baman (00:21:29) - Thank you for listening to this episode. If you'd like to learn more about today's topic and guest, head over to the show notes linked in the description of this episode. There you can get access to resources, links, and ways you can get involved in the pursuit for global health. And if you love this episode, don't forget to write me a review on Apple Podcast and rate the podcast on Spotify. It helps me get in front of more people just like you and continues to elevate the causes we are so passionate about. I'll see you in the next one.