Let's Talk About HIV and AIDS in the Black Community
**Note - please excuse the typos. This transcript was automatically generated.**
Hetal Baman (00:03.260)
oh i'm so happy this i just want to tell everybody we had some technical difficulties before we started recording and i feel like the universe is just a let me just tell you this morning i m i looked at my phone i saw one one one and i don't know how spiritual you are case but i saw one one one and today is february twenty second so two two two
and then i looked at my window and i saw a cardinal and i was like my guides are here they're here and they know that i'm starting this today um and it's just it really everything kind of came full circle and i'm starting this podcast almost rebirthing it you know and i'm really just so happy to have you here cassy year my first interview
Cassandra Esperant (01:11.929)
i'm so honored how exciting i'm here to kick it off with you we're gonna have some great vibes and great conversation
Hetal Baman (01:13.060)
for yes yes i i'm really excited to have you on the podcast because well not only for the work that you do but the energy that you exude through like email even email conversations like i don't think we've had an email conversation without like multiple exclamation
marks and like caps and i was like i am totally here for it and so before i asked you to come on to the podcast i asked for you know some resources and these resources would be used for listeners if they want to learn more about what's going on in the world specific to this topic that we're on
Cassandra Esperant (01:44.829)
uh h
Hetal Baman (02:13.080)
talking about around h v aids in the black community and you had mentioned this incredible documentary called bending the ark i had not known about this before and it was it's just a remarkable journey about bringing health equity to the poor in countries like hate um and i wanted to mention this because there was one part of the docume
entry that there was multiple parts of the documentary i'm going to say that just kind of opened my eyes but there was one line that was said in the documentary that totally reminded me of your spirit and the line was and i quote the key is to have a pessimism of the intellect but an optimism of the will i'm gonna say this again because
it's this line so it's so key in the work that we do i'm gonna say it again the key is to have a pessimism of the intellect but an optimism of the will so i'm going to start off this interview just by asking you what does that mean to you when it comes to work within social activism and the work that you do
Cassandra Esperant (03:41.829)
yeah i really love that code while that was so profound and when it comes to activism and global health work it's all about meeting people where they are right so you can have like a doctor you can have all of this knowledge but unless that person you're interacting with one one gets it and means nothing
Hetal Baman (03:53.660)
yes
Hetal Baman (04:08.060)
yes it was deep you know and i was watching the documentary and i was like this is this is everything i i listened to i found i followed somebody named simon cynic and yes
Cassandra Esperant (04:08.591)
wow that was deep i got chose
Cassandra Esperant (04:24.749)
oh my god he is like my absolute favorite like that book starting with why is like my part of my life mission i live from that
Hetal Baman (04:33.100)
he's amazing and i think sometimes people misconstrue his i guess optimism for almost toxic positivity because this line is like it hits that what he says is it's not that i'm blind siding myself from all of the things that are happening in the world it's that i have a will
that i have an understanding and knowing that we can do things to make a better world and that is why i'm an optimist and it hits home for me and especially in the field of work that you work in this is key because if you don't have this it's like every day is depressing oh my goodness all right so i'm
Cassandra Esperant (05:29.394)
of course
Hetal Baman (05:32.900)
started off cassy please share with our audience a little bit of what you do
Cassandra Esperant (05:39.789)
so many miss causasprat and my wife is adding value to everyone that i come into contact with so i think that's important to start from there because i feel like a lot of times we stand behind our profession and we make that our identity but at the end of the day it's who you are at the court right because change professions at any point especially someone like me who has so many interests not only am i a clinical farnasses
Hetal Baman (05:56.900)
yeah
Cassandra Esperant (06:09.549)
or not for profit a chine foundation as if it's called foundation but i also you know wear many hats have license in real estate so i'm really interested in a lot of things you know and some of my passions that i picked up this year as i start playing tennis and what tenants i love to bunch that's where i am
Hetal Baman (06:09.680)
hm
Hetal Baman (06:33.540)
i i okay i played tennis since i was five years old okay and if you're watching the video here my dog is just like me i have a window right here so she's like god she does want to be seen and she's looking at me she's like mummy there's people outside but aside from that um yes i
Cassandra Esperant (06:38.073)
oh wow
Cassandra Esperant (06:41.529)
uh huh
Cassandra Esperant (06:47.714)
she was she was to be seen
Cassandra Esperant (06:52.029)
uh uh
Hetal Baman (07:03.600)
absolutely love that you said that a lot of us hide behind the identity of a career and i did that for so long um and it it's it's interesting because i was an engineer you know would call myself an engineer for you know somebody would say like what do you do i'm an engineer you know and it's so hard to change that narrative some
Cassandra Esperant (07:18.429)
m
Hetal Baman (07:33.440)
times because we're so programmed in our society to answer to that so ever since i quit j j i was like oh god what is my identity like what do i do oh my gosh right now i don't know i guess i'm a podcaster now like what is that
Cassandra Esperant (07:54.475)
right
Cassandra Esperant (07:57.070)
you can be whoever you want to be that's the best part about it
Hetal Baman (07:59.340)
yes oh my gosh so you work in h i v aids as a farm assist
Cassandra Esperant (08:07.190)
yeah
Hetal Baman (08:10.580)
what brought you into this specific area of pharmacy
Cassandra Esperant (08:15.729)
so i recall being like five years old and watching the community of brooklyn like protest the false claim that patients caused me to the point where we weren't able to donate blood so this actually what a trial in the c d c and i've actually got to sit on some panels with some of these doctors that helped to dispel the myth i just think that that's a perfect example of our community came together for a cause besides
Hetal Baman (08:28.960)
m
Cassandra Esperant (08:45.549)
independence in eighteen o four so that's something i'm still proud of
Hetal Baman (08:48.560)
so can you talk a little bit about that myth
Cassandra Esperant (08:52.309)
so there's something called four cents includes patients airn users in homosexuals so these are known as four cardinal that led to h but the patio component was not based on anything scientific as a matter of fact just the other day there was a a netflixtock in menery that actually tried to perpetrate that myth again in a commune
Hetal Baman (08:56.040)
hm
Hetal Baman (09:06.640)
hm
Hetal Baman (09:12.620)
right
Hetal Baman (09:21.260)
what
Cassandra Esperant (09:22.109)
yes the community be rallied i believe it was like a few years ago and the community rallied together this time we did like one of those online petitions and the next day i was down so i thought that was great but unfortunately it's still you know it's still happening sometimes
Hetal Baman (09:42.760)
well so in your title it's prep and h i v pharmacist what is prep
Cassandra Esperant (09:54.309)
that's a great question so medication that can take to prevent from contracting okay so there's no one point two million people have an education and gets what only twenty five per cent of that population is actually on it so there needs to be education and there's a lot of disparities like in the black and brown communities so sixty six percent of r
Hetal Baman (10:03.060)
m
Hetal Baman (10:13.780)
oh my god
Cassandra Esperant (10:24.289)
white man of sex with me are on pre but only nine percent on black and thirteen percent hysphenics so as time progresses that gap is getting wider
Hetal Baman (10:40.340)
well i'm just trying to think because
Hetal Baman (10:50.240)
what
Hetal Baman (10:56.520)
i'm just taking some time because it's it's that's huge i think
Hetal Baman (11:02.100)
when you're saying that there's many more white males who have sex with other white mails they're on this medication but what is the what's the reasoning why are black and brown like brothers and sisters aren't like what because this is this is something that i'm trying to wrap my brain brain around is like okay well are they just not getting enough education
the health care system when they're going to see their doctors other doctors not telling them about this what's going on there
Cassandra Esperant (11:39.949)
exactly so there's a lack of education and they need to see people that look like them and there's there's something called social determnfhealth right so education because at the end of the day to take care of other social issues before you can start to talk about taking a pill every day right so if i don't have a stable halting i don't have a stable income
Hetal Baman (11:46.500)
yeah
Cassandra Esperant (12:09.929)
i'm having some family issues do you really think that i'm going to commit to taking even as a health care professional for me to take my vitamin every day is a struggle can you imagine
Hetal Baman (12:15.860)
m
Hetal Baman (12:20.060)
oh my gosh
Hetal Baman (12:22.620)
let me tell you i just started taking vinaments again was like oh man i don't need that right
Cassandra Esperant (12:28.830)
it's a struggle it's a struggle but i mean there's two options there is one medication for pre exposure profhelaxes that means before you get exposed to i bet it's called the cop that's one is called the scots indicated for men and transgender women okay so the only reason that one was the one that came on the market more recently like twenty nineteen that one there's not sufficient studies in women
Hetal Baman (12:38.780)
and that's prep
Cassandra Esperant (12:56.289)
but the original agent came out in two thousand twelve called true bottom and it's for everybody so that one has more instinents on the bones than the kid needs to the point where you know her marketing a lot of people think that this cove is better and turns of men and trends tender women but it's pretty much marketing because head to head they're not inferior to the other
Hetal Baman (13:03.560)
m
Hetal Baman (13:22.440)
now i want to i want to talk about marketing because you just mentioned that now on marketing when you see you see these commercials you tend to always see men with men you know and it's like you had shared on your instagram an article around black women supporting other black women within the v community and this was one of
Cassandra Esperant (13:36.093)
exactly
Hetal Baman (13:52.380)
stigmas that we saw that i read about in that article or it was like a lot of times black women will only think that prep is just for black men or h v is just for black men wow and and they were saying that in order just like you said we need to see people who look like us in order to take something um and trust that were you know
Cassandra Esperant (14:05.538)
exactly
Hetal Baman (14:22.420)
given the right medications this article kind of opened my eyes around that well do you have anything to say around that
Cassandra Esperant (14:31.549)
definitely so when it comes to women black women are the most effective of gin and guess what we're not having as much fun you're having less sex and we're more prone to vie a kind of but what is the issue our community has more incident and we tend to not date outside of our race so that's the issue there so let's go back and talk about the black community here about four hundred and sixty nine thousand black people
Hetal Baman (14:51.280)
right
Cassandra Esperant (15:01.149)
eligible for and only eight percent are okay so we account for thirteen percent of the population yet forty two per cent all cases and what's happening head but gap just keeps getting wider
Hetal Baman (15:19.100)
there was a study that actually came out saying that um into any twenty forty four percent future fewer h v tests were administered among black people in non health care settings than in twenty nineteen and i was wondering you know in your opinion what happened here was it i mean i'm sure there was ovid related situations there where people didn't want to go to the doctor i know that i didn't go to the doctor i don't think i went to the doctor during covid but that's a huge number you know four
four per cent what happened there
Cassandra Esperant (15:52.889)
we're on coin lock downs and i think that like the last priority because i actually work at a sexually transit fection clinic and we have to shut down you know we have to shut down and people were trying to award crowds right in this clinic we see over two hundred and fifty people walk through our doors so if you think about it we have new priorities
Hetal Baman (16:08.280)
right
Hetal Baman (16:15.040)
right now exactly what you said about the whole priority situation was like it
Cassandra Esperant (16:20.249)
but guess what there's a solution to that so a lot of the health department across the country were spending free at home kid so the limitation of the home kids that if it was like an acute infection being like a recent affection like less than thirty days it may not pick up on it but imagine that person that's never walked in never got treatment or never got tested before i never went to the doctor's appointment that would be a perfect opportunity for the person to do the test and the comfort of their own home
Hetal Baman (16:27.560)
m
Hetal Baman (16:49.560)
yeah
Cassandra Esperant (16:50.510)
if it's positive go through the emotions and then get linked into
Hetal Baman (16:56.880)
right
Cassandra Esperant (16:57.989)
so that's where the education is important to empower people to you now because some people might be scared to walk into like a mobile unit or a facility especially when you probably had that exposure years ago or had a scare and you never did it that would be a perfect opportunity
Hetal Baman (17:13.059)
yeah
Hetal Baman (17:17.440)
wow so
Hetal Baman (17:23.680)
i want to pivot and talk about your work in haiti
Hetal Baman (17:29.580)
and
Hetal Baman (17:32.920)
one of the one of the things that came out of the documentary that you recommended bending the ark highly recommend please go watch it i'll put a link in the description but they talk about this word sustainability and
Hetal Baman (17:53.480)
in
Hetal Baman (17:59.340)
when i thought about sustainability and maybe like last year or a couple of years ago i'd be like oh yeah like why would we do it if it's not sustainable
Hetal Baman (18:11.860)
and this documentary totally flipped my head upside down because when you think about disaster situations or situations where people are just sick you know and you need to go in and just help them and there was this massive opposition in the documentary where they were like oh well
Hetal Baman (18:41.440)
you know these people don't even know how to read like watches or they don't know what clocks are like excuse me like what happened um so
Hetal Baman (18:54.820)
i think that like do you think that people tend to look away from disaster situations like the hive epidemic in places like hate because of their inability to provide quote unquote sustainable like a sustainable route of action
Cassandra Esperant (19:14.349)
i think it's all linked with the race long period i think that kind of sums it up it's similar to why like a successful black woman upper middle class has more challenging time in terms of pregnancy experience vers a poor white woman right so it's this is this is yeah so this is scientifically proven is not just my opinion although i was very
Hetal Baman (19:20.100)
yeah
Hetal Baman (19:34.500)
oh my god that's a whole another conversation to my gosh
Cassandra Esperant (19:43.769)
i is but i think it's all from that and what i do like about paul farmer which gotten risked because he died about like a month after i watched documentary because i was looking forward to meeting him because i think he's amazing person and i don't know if you remember the document they showed you how they had community workers also call him ears where they went and they assisted people and courage the nature they take
Hetal Baman (19:56.660)
yeah
Hetal Baman (20:00.360)
m
Hetal Baman (20:07.500)
yes
Cassandra Esperant (20:13.869)
they took their medication and i think that's sustainable i think that the affluent countries who are so stuck in individualistic mentality won't have as much of a success and i think that's sustainable and it's been proven so they did it with somerculisons and they did it again with and now that we have a concept called per navigators which let's say that you know i just get in time
Hetal Baman (20:15.220)
yep
Hetal Baman (20:39.860)
m
Cassandra Esperant (20:43.769)
o is and my navigator would be someone who's already been living with it to guide me through the process where do you think they got that from from paul farmer and hat and they were able to replicate that in all these other african countries and i believe that they prove that there's sustain ability to now they have petfar that offers a us organization that offers medication to all the countries that need assistance
Hetal Baman (21:13.880)
gus
Cassandra Esperant (21:14.269)
so did did you like the impact that he had with his friends from college that had these positions and that was amazing let's change the game forever
Hetal Baman (21:22.980)
oh my gosh
Hetal Baman (21:26.600)
i mean do you think that that was the first the first
Hetal Baman (21:34.180)
idea of community health workers
Cassandra Esperant (21:38.050)
maybe not but maybe first documented
Hetal Baman (21:40.180)
right yeah because what do they what did they call them it was like the um yes i'm not even going to try to yes
Cassandra Esperant (21:45.569)
a company yeacomuncommunity health workers yeah i thought that concept was amazing and they use it in the us as well
Hetal Baman (21:56.740)
perfect perfect so within hate what is your main focus working with caprcare that's a patient led organization led by jean pierre louis what hat are you focusing on mainly with the people within hate
Cassandra Esperant (22:16.669)
so the focus is to decrease stigma to allow those people who have the diagnosis to have the confidence to live a life because at the end of the day i always say it you're to manage an diagnosis to manage diapedishypertention hen you take your pill once a day and your vial control you're okay but when it comes to like tension and diapediit's up and down
Hetal Baman (22:19.860)
m
Cassandra Esperant (22:46.449)
that's what's causing the issues but again that stigma is still there so like educating people educating their family members not to judge so they're not hiding and not taking their men right it's so important to have sense of community and one thing that's not happening as often as like is getting tested so i'm part of the organization in south convenation american farmacisassociation and since i worked for its health care foundation which
Hetal Baman (22:55.640)
yes
Cassandra Esperant (23:16.729)
goble nd go we have a pregancan i wanted to make the connection of okay going on this mission trip how out you know this organization that to test people guess what i got a lot of push back for that because they were concerned about the linkage component but they didn't understand at first that this go would take care of everything but which makes sense the push back makes a hundred percent sense right because if you're not ready to you know
take care of these people if they become positive you probably should have taken on so what is that tell you that this is not happening as often as you would think put the great thing about it who were able to convince them because he will come and take care of everything and the best part about it they're still on the ground after the week so fortunately on a couple young women became positive with kids like very young girls and but at least they're about to be linked to care the couple like some just like it
Hetal Baman (23:50.000)
right
Hetal Baman (23:55.140)
right
Cassandra Esperant (24:16.429)
yes and they had treatment and they were able to continue the treatment because there was a molten unit very close to the area so that was great
Hetal Baman (24:16.860)
right
Hetal Baman (24:28.060)
i absolutely love that um so we just i don't know when this episode is going to come out but today is february twenty second and we just passed february seventh which was black awareness day oh my gosh happy birthday where do you think the level of awareness is today
Cassandra Esperant (24:42.950)
and my birthday thank you
Cassandra Esperant (24:52.729)
that's a great question i think that with social media there is opportunity for peoenomore and its but there still needs to be more education and i think that there is people who still believe that the it's contagious there's still people there's people who don't understand the concept that undetectable equals untransmitable if i have a diagnosis i take
Hetal Baman (25:13.220)
wow
Hetal Baman (25:21.560)
m
Cassandra Esperant (25:22.549)
medication and i take care of myself i will never give it to anyone else you know so this information could change the trajectory of somebody's life you know is important and then there's also called something called post exposure play morning after as long as you take it within seven two hours of exposure that will and there's programs to pay for at no cost as within the income so there needs to be all this education and i think
Hetal Baman (25:26.380)
right
Hetal Baman (25:51.700)
right
Cassandra Esperant (25:52.529)
it's not just on the black community but every community
Hetal Baman (25:58.320)
hundred per cent
Hetal Baman (26:01.860)
so what are we trying to do like what do we need to improve that amount of awareness like is it more social media is it more marketing is it just everything
Cassandra Esperant (26:13.509)
we need to you change the perception we need to make sure that people understand like start taking the medication for prevention that you may have some side effects but it'll go away to lie is all education yeah education education and it's in a class of medication known as anti retrovirals which also used to treat me in this sense is permitting
Hetal Baman (26:28.500)
like any other antibaotic right
Hetal Baman (26:36.980)
hm
Hetal Baman (26:42.680)
amazing i want to ask you a couple of questions that i asked my audience my listeners this is coming from a cousin of mine who is a new pharmacist so im shouting you out she wanted to know how can a pharmacist get involved in humanitarian as domestically or even you know globally
Cassandra Esperant (26:57.929)
m hm
Hetal Baman (27:12.720)
because i think that when you think of a pharmacist you think of like the person that works at your local c v s or your local wall greens and it's like there's so much more that you can do what would you say to her
Cassandra Esperant (27:18.811)
right right
Cassandra Esperant (27:28.649)
that's really a good question so i started off doing my whole retail thing after five or six years i just knew this wasn't it and i started seeking other opportunities and i got connected with the health organization and been a great opportunity because actual started off by opening farmacyfor them and then i found my way in the public health side of it because farms focus on pre
Hetal Baman (27:54.860)
m
Cassandra Esperant (27:57.749)
i left pefarmacy and i'm team called strategical response team where i'm actually imbedded in a suctually transmit infection clinic right and i'm actually prescribing under something called a collabrative practice agreement and through this n g i'm also connected with the health department so i always recommend to connect with your local health department and see what opportunities that you can find whether it's just to start volunteering because they have like io medical
advisory meetings and if you connect there the master minds of all the organizations at doing the work in the community they tend to come together and they have the master mind meetings and try to figure it out so that would be my recommendation connect with health departments and i have the opportunity of having the ofinity groups that with ganization part of park which is a woman emparnment organization like something cool
Hetal Baman (28:29.260)
m
Hetal Baman (28:54.360)
m
Cassandra Esperant (28:57.589)
what i'm going to do is in a few weeks i'm going to go to lkethbronch that this profit organization is hosting and it's called a hashtecfor her you get up and do like a fifteen minute conversation about the importance of black women and bark the opportunities like in a few weeks i'm going to texas we're going to help women find some clothes to interview and help prepare them so these are these opportunities so this is led by char director
Cassandra Esperant (29:27.669)
also a board member of that we also have initiative that's cobalcall girls act where we empower girls by getting them pads ear because there's something called period poverty so again i would say connect with your local health department try to get it connected with those meetings that they have and a perfect opportunity to network with all the indios and all the global help work and then it was just going to extend from there
Hetal Baman (29:39.900)
m hm
Hetal Baman (29:57.260)
yes so i'm gonna put all those links for spark and what was the second one girl's act girls act yes
Cassandra Esperant (30:04.829)
girls act like our it's our global initiative is based in hatytsatin africa cool
Hetal Baman (30:11.580)
oh wow i absolutely love that okay so i'm going to put that into the description so that people can go and check it out and i just want to say thank you for being here cassie
Cassandra Esperant (30:26.669)
thanks for having me it's always a pleasure and it's always fun to have a conversation with you i feel like we're just on the phone vibing
Hetal Baman (30:32.300)
we're just diving the last question i have for you is really you know if people want to get in if people want to get in contact with you asking more questions around the work that you do or maybe even get involved where where can they find you
Cassandra Esperant (30:50.589)
so you can find me an instagram at theprepandhivpharmacist
Hetal Baman (31:00.880)
yeah okay awesome thank you so much