Why Are Infants Dying From Preventable Causes?

**Note - please excuse the typos. This transcript was automatically generated.**

Hetal Baman (00:02.535)

good morning good morning it's almost eleven a m we are talking on march second and i'm so excited let me just tell you um you know this is a topic that i've been trying to ever since i decided to re launch my podcast i knew that i wanted to get you back on the podcast last time when i first launched i had

Wisam Breegi (00:03.040)

oh good morning

Hetal Baman (00:32.615)

your son danny on and that was an awesome interview and i was like you know what i want to get dr. Breegi, Wisam, on that's how you pronounce your name with some we okay i just wanted to make sure and it came about when well i was just excited because when i saw your post on linked in that kind of sparked that excitement

Wisam Breegi (00:44.100)

we saw him yes

Hetal Baman (01:02.635)

and and me and i'm going to if you don't mind i'm going to read that tweet that you shared and so the tweet comes from the kampala journal um and it says update at least fifteen babies died at malaga hospital after the incubators went off for close to three hours after electricity black out hashtack j news and i just want to i'm going to read the

Wisam Breegi (01:09.060)

yes

Hetal Baman (01:32.515)

first paragraph that you wrote because that was something that it just it's almost like it hooked me so you say why are in fence dying from easily preventable causes the lack of will to invest in innovation and basic no natal health care key word is basic is puzzling despite the staggering numbers of babies dying or surviving with disabilities annually especially in low and middle income country

Wisam Breegi (01:51.400)

yeah

Hetal Baman (02:03.355)

we are not talking about upstream disease prevention we're talking about a century old technology incubators

Wisam Breegi (02:11.080)

yeah

Hetal Baman (02:13.495)

i um you know that was something that it just blew my mind um and i just wanted to ask you like what exactly happened here in this situation

Wisam Breegi (02:28.660)

uh you know it's it's unfortunate that this is probably one tweet that we got from my travels around the world you know seeing hospitals and this is you know trips that was you know organized with minister of health and all kind of people who are you know involved in this subject and you go to hospitals and you see these old incubators mostly refer

Hetal Baman (02:57.075)

m m

Wisam Breegi (02:59.160)

which means that because they can afford and this is a country in this is you know a government hospital but they can afford you know these you know hundred thousand dollars incubators so what they do

Hetal Baman (03:03.335)

yeah

Hetal Baman (03:10.855)

is that what an incubator so an incubator actually costs

Wisam Breegi (03:13.300)

so oh incubators you know when you look on the internet which is interesting this is something you know we had to struggle with in the beginning because you know you go and it says oh you know they are like ten hell there is no ten but probably fifteen twenty to sixty thousand dollars you know incubators but the reality so we went to hospitals and we said okay so this is not very expensive if you can buy for you know ten fifteen thousand dollar incubator and they said what are you talking about

Hetal Baman (03:30.755)

Wisam Breegi (03:43.480)

um tough medical you know you know you know in boston the children's hospital they actually bought at the time they bought this is a few years ago i think sixteen of them and each one cost about a hundred thousand dollars fully furbished and i said you know what is that number and they said oh yeah you know they gave it to you it's basically just a box you know heat and humidity and then you have to add all these monitors you know

Hetal Baman (03:49.815)

Hetal Baman (04:02.015)

oh my gosh

Wisam Breegi (04:13.220)

things into the oxygen for the therapy and so forth and then suddenly the price is you know way up there actually the problem even worth which makes it is that to maintain these incubators because these incubators are very sufphisticated you know to maintain them basically have to sign a contract of maintenance you know or to have you know an external you know services to maintain this

Hetal Baman (04:40.035)

yeah

Hetal Baman (04:41.955)

Wisam Breegi (04:43.100)

incubators and it's cost annually more than the incubator itself so it's really you know something really my boding and this is where i guess when i started i was a little upset you know at least to say is like seriously well it's not discouraged because we actually been for a past decade at least you know working on you know an innovative solution and so it's not impossible the only thing is

Hetal Baman (04:52.595)

where

Hetal Baman (04:58.475)

you're a little discouraged you know

Hetal Baman (05:05.555)

yeah

Hetal Baman (05:11.415)

so it's right

Wisam Breegi (05:13.100)

why you know these incubators they are completely dependent like you know in this case you know what happened this hospital it was completely dependent on electricity which is you know the same thing for every other incubators that used so there's no electricity there's no incubator you know it's just a box that sitting there does nothing and you know some hospitals that i visited actually because they stopped working they didn't have the spare

Hetal Baman (05:24.895)

right how

Hetal Baman (05:41.555)

they

Wisam Breegi (05:43.080)

part you know the technical know how what to do with it so literally they kept it as a box they have premature babies in these incubators and they put the little warm you know bottles you know waters you know inside to keep you know the baby and i was looking at it like what is this and they said well you know we can't use it okay so why are using you know this and i said well it's even psychological like we feel good as doctors because

Hetal Baman (06:09.975)

Wisam Breegi (06:13.060)

we don't have incubators i was like my god you know this is this is really sad that you know you can not you know this machine that is essential and probably this is the only machine by by the way you know in fit incubators just to give you a quick background probably you know with people who really not familiar with with in fit incubators infant incubator is this technology that was you know in the very early what is nineteen hundred later

Hetal Baman (06:15.055)

oh my gosh

Hetal Baman (06:19.695)

yeah

Hetal Baman (06:26.395)

m hm

Wisam Breegi (06:43.100)

ten hundreds and you know developed you know in the past you know a couple of decades later you know and became you know this box that has some you know lectric components which is you know to provide heat and humidity and this box state the same for the past century nobody did anything to really develop this actually became more complicated more sophisticated

but it is exactly the same basic technology it's a box and it has to run on electricity and it provides heat and human that's it now you know and we'll talk a little bit more you know in details you know the problems with with this design and what happened and then why you know we know i mean governments and you know in the us and everywhere we spend billions of dollars you know on own babies but it still

Hetal Baman (07:13.335)

right

Hetal Baman (07:18.855)

ah h

Hetal Baman (07:33.755)

you know

Wisam Breegi (07:43.360)

we like the infant incubators we like the infastructure and the problem is the infant incubator dictates everything around it you know the system the service the hospital the maintenance everything goes around this because this is the only device the infant incubator that is i guess what we call it by a containment space that creates a micro environment for a patient

there is no other patient that you put them in micro environment except i know extreme cases with infectious diseases or other things that you put them but regularly that you know babies and new born babies when they are sick and wait or you know premature you put them in these micro environment so it is a very basic kind of technology that use but nobody have i don't know i related

Hetal Baman (08:21.175)

right

Hetal Baman (08:27.635)

well

Wisam Breegi (08:43.160)

now although did a lot of research and i have probably some ideas is like why you know this but still it is a problem and we are losing you know millions of babies annually because of just this simple techology

Hetal Baman (08:43.915)

you

Wisam Breegi (09:03.040)

sad isn't it

Hetal Baman (09:03.115)

yeah we're gonna it's it really is and it you know i feel like i just i learned so much just from i mean i learned so much just from you talk i didn't know how far back incubators were developed you know that was something that is so interesting to me because even yeah

Wisam Breegi (09:29.360)

you know it what is it interesting it's recently the the united states government accountability office presented a report to the congress last year and this report actually this is the united states were talking we're not talking you know anywhere else in the world this is you know the you know contribute with with you know

Hetal Baman (09:32.695)

what

Hetal Baman (09:40.175)

yes

Hetal Baman (09:47.695)

this

Hetal Baman (09:54.035)

yeah

Wisam Breegi (09:58.300)

the innovation and technology the the report actually shows that half of the nichi departments were closed in the united states between two thousand four and two thousand eighteen going backward half of these mostly involved america of course affected

Hetal Baman (10:01.075)

the technology

Hetal Baman (10:25.615)

most

Wisam Breegi (10:28.300)

cifically low income so you know black community s mostly affected native americans or alaska indigenous whore actually you know were affected by this i mean you know it is which you know if you put it with other reports like you know there was something we were talking about early report march fourth time

Hetal Baman (10:35.415)

make

Hetal Baman (10:38.535)

indigenous yep

Hetal Baman (10:58.735)

h m

Wisam Breegi (10:58.820)

the uh their report which is this is again you know this is the recent report only a few months old it basically says that the pre maturity in one year in the united states rose by four percent and again it affects you know black community and indigenous groups and avlascana and so forth and so you know you look at it is like we are

Hetal Baman (11:02.055)

Hetal Baman (11:25.015)

Wisam Breegi (11:28.280)

cutting cost now you know this has been said we spend you know billions of dollars on neonits annually but it's these billions of dollars that are because the cost is so high that they have to close nick department which is a nito intensive care units in hospitals because they are highly specialized they need invent incubators and if you

Hetal Baman (11:40.775)

yeah

Hetal Baman (11:50.595)

Wisam Breegi (11:58.260)

have infer incubators then you have to have maintenance in the maintainance than you have to have technical people who would actually you pay for you know by medical engineers and so forth you know to actually maintain and then you have to clean and disinfect and so forth weekly you know maximum en week you have to actually take the baby out and clean disinfect because one thing we have to remind ourselves this is an incubator which means now

Hetal Baman (12:06.335)

right right

Hetal Baman (12:18.155)

right right

Wisam Breegi (12:28.440)

only cubator for babies it's incubator for germs it's heat it's a fantastic environment for for germs to grow growth it's thirty seven it's celcisis heat and humidity what's better you know for that so now you have a baby who compete you know with these germs and you have you know the most vulnerable of your cities this is you know a babe just born

Hetal Baman (12:37.455)

for growth

Hetal Baman (12:45.835)

all right

Hetal Baman (12:55.695)

right

Wisam Breegi (12:58.480)

that you know the system is still weak everything is this about them you know and they are sick to start with and then you put them in these incubators so it is really you know there is again you know the more you dig into it the more just mind modeling is like you know why we are sticking to this technology and nobody is really investing to re think you know this whole process you know the health care system

Hetal Baman (13:05.995)

right

Wisam Breegi (13:28.600)

for why we are not re thinking this system and it is exactly and then honestly with the incubi it's catched twenty two it's literally you know you are damned if you don't have them because then when you put the babies and if you have them because when you have them then you have you know the cost you have the cross contamination there is a problem getting ourselves

Hetal Baman (13:35.035)

it's like where where are our priorities right

Hetal Baman (13:47.375)

you're right

Wisam Breegi (13:58.340)

there's but there is you know so when i started this work you know on neonitesand you know in fit incubators and probably come to to the story why i got you know really hooked up and you know why round you know this subject it's one thing that a few years ago when i started doing my research for me it was clear i mean as a scientist as i

Hetal Baman (14:13.475)

yes

Wisam Breegi (14:28.300)

enter and you know looking at something immediately like that's that's what it is you know the incubator was designed in a way that it makes it complicated and makes it prone to to infections and all that simple so the first thing i did is like okay as a research you know let's go dig you know the data research find what people actually published

Hetal Baman (14:31.995)

look

Hetal Baman (14:36.675)

Wisam Breegi (14:55.440)

it was so difficult to find somebody who would pin point that it is the infant incubator i could not find clear cut that the infincubators were actually you know the source of this problem you know people will dance around it but you can you know read between the lines you can find you know things when it says oh you know in the united states there is probably you know twenty

Hetal Baman (15:12.835)

oh my gosh

Wisam Breegi (15:25.200)

us percent of babies who get sick in viniqyouknow from infections and all that but they don't tell you from where these infections are coming and what is you know the case where actually if you look at the nice what the nurses are doing but the doctors are doing they are doing an amazing job and then we look okay so i can see that these people are dedicated you know their time their life to these little babies you know vulnerable babies

then why they are getting you know i'm sick in the hospital and nobody could actually say that a few years ago and this is a few years ago that the f d a had a recall on you know considered the cad lax all incubators is called called you know and here now have to to to talk about you know you know a huge company

Hetal Baman (15:56.695)

Hetal Baman (15:59.875)

they're still getting sick

Hetal Baman (16:22.215)

yeah

Wisam Breegi (16:25.220)

but this is not about g it was a recall for their graf incubators because they actually get infection you know and i'm sure they danced around the now to work with the d and then said oh you know the seals you know rubber seals or whatever the harbor now bacteria and so forth and then that's where the infection you know coming from and there was you know this recall and they have to read it and it was his

Hetal Baman (16:41.435)

right

Hetal Baman (16:52.815)

and

Wisam Breegi (16:55.200)

nobody heard about it and it just disappeared uh now actually interestingly enough you know you know the past couple of weeks have been you know researching this whole subject and i started finding more data and i think people probably it became so obvious that you cannot hide it any more and there was so much talk about it so i found this article i mean a lot of articles but this one was in nepal

Hetal Baman (17:11.195)

yeah right

Hetal Baman (17:24.794)

Wisam Breegi (17:25.660)

uh where they actually found seventy five percent of infections in the know the nice is actually the majority came from the infant incubators and the warmest and it was clear you know that actually it was you know the problem one even i would consider it because i'm sure a lot of people who would start to push back as well you know

Hetal Baman (17:43.795)

yeah

Wisam Breegi (17:55.220)

this is you know low resource settings and you know people don't have a very good kind of protocols for cleaning disinfecting or not there doing not doing it right okay fair enough in france a study three years not not a small study three years in you know two thousand eighteen they actually looked into cases of bactremia in babies in the

Hetal Baman (18:06.315)

right

Wisam Breegi (18:25.400)

they tried to go through a very methodical you know process of elimination from where the you know infection is coming you know the babies and they did everything and you know the department you know the people the care providers you know and so forth finally they you know zeroed down and narrowed to the whole thing to the incubators okay they change the process of cleaning disinfecting

Hetal Baman (18:36.155)

right

Hetal Baman (18:47.955)

you know

Hetal Baman (18:53.895)

the i know wow

Wisam Breegi (18:55.260)

or which is again it is you know this is you're talking about you know france you're not talking about another country and they couldn't solve it finally they actually had to take this incubators out put new ones the infection stopped so literally you clean disinfect do everything and it's till the infection is there so this is what it tells me literally

Hetal Baman (19:15.195)

the

Hetal Baman (19:18.495)

Hetal Baman (19:22.255)

so now i'm going to talk i want to ask you questions on that but i want to i want to go back so and talk about the mission of brig scientific so you founded this company called brie scientific

Wisam Breegi (19:25.260)

it was like a erica point where i was like you know we were vindicated now because what we did we actually made a disposable housing

Wisam Breegi (19:38.240)

yes

Hetal Baman (19:52.275)

you focus on low resource settings um and what

Wisam Breegi (19:55.060)

yes

Hetal Baman (20:01.435)

how did you start to like really form this idea of the incubator for i guess you could have even made a company that service people within the us you know in high income come countries but what was what was the main reason why you foyourwant to focus on those specific areas

Wisam Breegi (20:23.560)

well so my background is in medical you know as a doctor finished my post dock and guest ontology i worked in falmic research i have several patterns in enough thelmology which is you know talking about money making you can make you know these patterns and these devices and you know make a lot of money you know but my research for many years i was very lucky in my crow

Hetal Baman (20:42.755)

right

Hetal Baman (20:46.995)

right

Wisam Breegi (20:53.400)

or that it really brought me to many fields of research and exposed to a lot of things and my travels my background probably i don't know as a man always look into you know the people who are actually less you know fortunate i guess when i started looking into medical devices in general you know always we design something you know

Hetal Baman (20:59.935)

and exposed to a lot of

Hetal Baman (21:21.555)

Wisam Breegi (21:23.400)

for high value you know countries you know we design something that it's basically so high tech so expensive that it was design you know by design it is for high resource settings and the problem is that this is a device that is going to be used in the rest of the world which is the ninety percent of the world and then suddenly you take these devices

Hetal Baman (21:33.675)

so hm

Hetal Baman (21:40.255)

right

Hetal Baman (21:49.715)

right

Wisam Breegi (21:53.560)

and you want to use them in low resource settings where you know the culture is different the political environment is different the social economics is different you know all of this and now you want to use this you know there which eventually you gonna you know you have the device because always the argument will be we have the technology why don't you use it well i can't because it's too expensive too complicated it needs a lot

Hetal Baman (22:20.735)

right is

Wisam Breegi (22:23.480)

only at the end only the wealth her of the scienty who can afford actually these technologies now medicine shouldn't be like that i mean this is where i think my you know philosophy might believe and this is you know core thing in me medicine should be like that medicine should be like you know when we talk about you know education which is unfortunate you know the problems and thing is that to have to be for everybody you know

Hetal Baman (22:51.135)

right right i

Wisam Breegi (22:53.700)

it has to be a human brock like it has to everybody has to have access nd good access not because you know i don't have money somebody developed a card board in fort incubator and i looked at it as like what are you thinking you know true these people don't have money but you don't spend time and develope a cardboard into incubator

Hetal Baman (23:10.755)

Hetal Baman (23:16.375)

Wisam Breegi (23:24.200)

you know you have to know how developed something that it is high tech good quality it actually treat but at the same time you know we as you know creators inventors researches you know in the field who we can think of ways to make this technology and we have the abilities we have to know how to make it you know low low cost it doesn't mean that you

Hetal Baman (23:25.975)

yeah

Hetal Baman (23:48.615)

Wisam Breegi (23:53.320)

i will compromise the quality is just the cost and this is you know exactly and this unfortunately it takes time because if you want to develop you know an expensive device it's much faster then developing you know expensive and good device but if you want to do low cost but good device then you triple your time because now we have to do research how to make it

Hetal Baman (23:57.135)

right accessibility

Hetal Baman (24:18.755)

Wisam Breegi (24:23.860)

you know less expensive and we have examples i mean we're working on photo therapy that hours work on twelve volt that cost probably comparing with the other ones no more than five per cent of what it costs and actually it works even better

Hetal Baman (24:25.335)

yep

Hetal Baman (24:41.675)

wow

Hetal Baman (24:46.775)

you know when you were talking about that i was thinking about how a lot of met device companies in the in the us they will send or donate uh you know devices like for example incubators right and like you said maybe the electricity goes out or there or they just don't know how to use it it's too complicated you know and then and then it just kind of sits in a in a storage area

Wisam Breegi (25:15.560)

absolutely

Hetal Baman (25:16.735)

and what happens there you know

Wisam Breegi (25:18.620)

absolutely i have i have photos literally i was in two rooms in hospitals where there was an article a few years ago i'm trying to remember if it was the wall street journal actually was published were talking about the incubators graveyard

Hetal Baman (25:23.495)

yep

Wisam Breegi (25:40.640)

you know there is a good will of donating you know this refurbished you know machines all that but these are you know old machines six months and i literally on the ground you know as i said you know i went to central america and other places where we looked at it and they said it comes it works you know three four or five six months stopped nobody knows how to fix it and you know just just to dump it on the side

Hetal Baman (25:41.255)

Hetal Baman (25:42.935)

there is

Hetal Baman (26:07.215)

all right so we just put it in the sun

Wisam Breegi (26:10.540)

as i said you know i have these you know photos where babies they are sitting in a non functional in the incubator

Hetal Baman (26:11.735)

right

Wisam Breegi (26:20.600)

exactly

Hetal Baman (26:20.755)

it's like what's the point what's the point wow okay i definitely want to talk about your story because the beginning of the culmination of what brig scientific is kind of started correct me if i'm wrong but it started way back when you had your first child danny and just i want to i want to ask you like i just

Wisam Breegi (26:44.180)

true

Hetal Baman (26:50.655)

just to really tell us the story of what happened and why why this idea like how this idea came about and i mean it's just touching like i just want to i just want to hear from you

Wisam Breegi (27:07.960)

well it's one of you know those things that no parents with one actually see i mean we were like a in a way this has happened actually during the first goal for i was in a rock and my wife was now late stage of pregnancy you know when you know the war started and in the middle of the war

Hetal Baman (27:24.515)

yeah

Wisam Breegi (27:37.160)

where she fled you know back that we were actually in a town that were not familiar with with with even i mean probably the same story any refugouhave you see on t v today it was just horrific and i interested i had things in my car that i was

Hetal Baman (27:54.575)

hm yep

Hetal Baman (28:03.055)

testing

Wisam Breegi (28:07.040)

ready to deliver you know my baby and of course my my my wife was like no way you're not going to touch me i know you not going to touch me you know you know so i was like okay fair enough you know let's figure it out so i had to to drive literally and it was so dangerous i mean this is in middle of bombing and explosions and all that and in an air

Hetal Baman (28:13.075)

wow

Hetal Baman (28:16.735)

no way o

Hetal Baman (28:36.875)

oh my gosh

Wisam Breegi (28:37.700)

you know we were as i said you know we were outside you know we fled home and you know we were we were comfortable you know in a sense that you know half of the family doctors the you know the uncles the cousins and and you know so and her doctor is one of the best actually you know in the country and then but when we fled everything is gone

Hetal Baman (29:01.595)

Wisam Breegi (29:07.600)

you know this whole you know there is nothing underneath you i mean literally you feel like you know you are in a free fall and this is you know not only your life but now there is you know your wife in where there's a baby coming in you don't know what to do so i find this small hospital and you know the small town who are in and was literally almost abandoned there was a skeleton of two nurses and one doctor

Hetal Baman (29:09.295)

right right

Hetal Baman (29:16.395)

m m

Hetal Baman (29:27.115)

Wisam Breegi (29:37.260)

and it stayed in in the hospital and they didn't have electricity for couple of months because you know the whole structure was bumped and it was freezing cold and we had one candle in the hospital literally there was one candle we had in front of us and there was a candle inside you know where the doctor and the nurse and i can hear you know my wife you know like railing in agony

Hetal Baman (29:37.435)

oh my gosh

Hetal Baman (29:43.095)

he didn't have

Hetal Baman (29:46.915)

Hetal Baman (29:56.675)

Wisam Breegi (30:07.440)

and then the nurse came to me and she said you know go get me some some wood i was like what do you mean and she said you know your wife is freezing and i'm worried about the baby and i said there's no wood i mean this is like you know a menicule the yard outside you know the hospital was just like well well what are you gonna find so anyway so i go outside it was pitch dark and it was it was you know

Hetal Baman (30:09.195)

yep

Hetal Baman (30:17.715)

and she said

Hetal Baman (30:37.555)

it was i can almost imagine you with like a

Wisam Breegi (30:38.400)

as sad as it is was you know really comic because i went into a pool of concrete that i didn't see it was so dark i literally walked walked right in it and and you know it my head you know on the floor like literally laid on my back exactly i mean you know in the middle of all of this and a lot of years later but you know i didn't even pay attention to what happened to me so i go around and i find

Hetal Baman (30:55.795)

oh like a cartoon

Hetal Baman (31:03.555)

right

Wisam Breegi (31:07.240)

twigs and whatever i go and and i pulled one of those stella still you know surgical you know containers put the within put alcohol and lit a little fire and when danny came he was blue literally she called me i look at him i mean the kid is dark and she said that you know the baby is freezing and i'm looking around there's incubators just lined up in the room

Hetal Baman (31:31.415)

she said

Wisam Breegi (31:37.540)

and they were just piece of junk you know and it's so you know first rating that it is right next to you and you can't save your baby so literally within you know like half an hour this anyway so we took the baby i run to the car you know put the heat on in trying to actually get the baby in the car in the hospital to keep him warm yeah

Hetal Baman (31:48.935)

and you can't use it

Hetal Baman (31:57.235)

so h m

Wisam Breegi (32:07.240)

um so you know it really you know one of those things is that even you don't know what happened to to the fact you know it really you know many from all of this and and you know years later of course you know immediately we actually we had plans to leave the country and we were lucky we left and you know came to the us and know danny grew up to be a healthy you know child and then went to be you

Hetal Baman (32:19.495)

you know

Wisam Breegi (32:37.400)

finished prema and then he decided to go public health and you know this whole story you know sometimes you tried to block it literally from from your mind just so sad that one day came to me and he said that you know that there is more than three and a half million babies died before twenty eight days and you know is that like the incubators is a big deal out of all of this and then it's like what you talking about what the three in half a million and said

Hetal Baman (32:37.875)

when

Wisam Breegi (33:07.080)

annually before twenty eight days so i started digging and doing research and i'm looking at the members was like oh my god you know this you know we were so lucky you know the rest of the world you know what happened to these families and in so being you know an innovator an inventor i had some ideas actually something i was working on for by a containment space a disposable one that you can actually do surgery

Hetal Baman (33:13.835)

yes

Hetal Baman (33:19.215)

you know

Wisam Breegi (33:37.160)

s and other things you know without having this complicated you know surgical suits and all that and and you can do it anywhere so when we looked at this i said okay we can actually developed and infant incubator that it would have everything that you know a catala all incubators have that we will put it in this one but we'll make it better so we went in literal

Hetal Baman (33:54.975)

wow

Wisam Breegi (34:08.080)

broke down every single component of an incubator what works what doesn't where is the problems you know electricity infection complicated component there is can work on a solid can work n a battery can you use it for transport can you if there is no doctor suddenly or even not suddenly you know in a war or something but in a

Hetal Baman (34:14.995)

work

Wisam Breegi (34:37.140)

all town and there's no specialist can a specialist have an access to this baby immediately look at the data look at the baby and can actually guide you know the health care providers how to actually do this so we look at all of this and we start putting it together so it became literally you know the ferrari that can drive in the desert

Hetal Baman (34:45.095)

this

Hetal Baman (35:04.795)

oh i love that i love that oh my gosh yeah i mean i was looking at those statistics and you know

Hetal Baman (35:17.115)

over two point five million annually in no natal mortality and morbidity over forty million need help annually which is insane um can you just for people who don't understand the difference between mortality and morbidity can you just uh yeah

Wisam Breegi (35:26.560)

yeah

Wisam Breegi (35:31.480)

yes so you know basically mortalities is as it indicates you know death so this is where you know the numbers of you know the statistics that were looked at when you know somebody expired died and morbidity is where somebody is sick and getting infection now the the n fr

Hetal Baman (35:51.475)

Hetal Baman (35:58.735)

Wisam Breegi (36:01.380)

and it's part of this story that we look at morbidity mortality because it's easy calculated you know that register goes through you know the registry and now you can count you know a number morbidity which is the most dangerous part in my mind is not the mortality is the morbidity because it's i mean one

Hetal Baman (36:13.855)

right

Hetal Baman (36:19.075)

right

Wisam Breegi (36:31.760)

perceived the mortality so you have somebody's getting sick sick bad did get help whatever and then died but the problem is that what we see you know now the numbers is what's recorded and what you know the whole says that recently is you know two point six or you know three million babies die annually before twenty eight days which is the infancy when we say twenty eight days

Hetal Baman (36:40.115)

yes

Hetal Baman (36:46.755)

Wisam Breegi (37:01.480)

when we say an infant so a baby is a baby six months a year it's a baby but an infant and new born is twenty eight days so that's where you know it's calculated in when we talk about you know the infancy as a new born so you know when you have this number you really think you know two and a half million as a matter of fact it's probably double or quadruple because it's not recorded everywhere you know small

Hetal Baman (37:02.095)

right

Hetal Baman (37:22.055)

Wisam Breegi (37:31.320)

towns villages you know whatever and people don't even you know record you know they have birth you know a couple of days later in the village and dies and you know the unfortunately at the end of the story now morbidity where you know it is you know to tell the truth for my studies it's not even forty million it's probably you know sixty or seventy million babies that they need health

Hetal Baman (37:32.995)

right

Hetal Baman (37:39.935)

right

Hetal Baman (37:59.035)

Wisam Breegi (38:01.760)

and most of them they can get it because you would look at it there is you know babies who would come you know low birth weight we're talking about you know twenty two million you know babies this is again this is who data fifteen million premature babies and it's increasing as i said you know in the nited states in one year four percent increase h then you have john dis

Hetal Baman (38:17.655)

Hetal Baman (38:25.595)

Wisam Breegi (38:31.440)

which is the simplest thing an it's this is you know where babies you know and you know people don't realize more than sixty percent of new born healthy babies they come with john and a big percentage of that actually needs for the therapy just some light but need to be in the hospital you need to have the equipment you need to have the light community actually keep the baby in the hospital so there is you know costs

Hetal Baman (38:34.155)

which right

Hetal Baman (38:53.775)

h m

Wisam Breegi (39:01.840)

maintainance and so forth so when you look at these numbers just absolutely start going with with you know the morbidity the problem there is you know a cascaded thing that you know we don't talk much about it it is you know what happened later when you have this you know these babies when you know in the first few weeks few months they don't

Hetal Baman (39:02.495)

right

Hetal Baman (39:17.435)

yes

Hetal Baman (39:25.235)

what

Wisam Breegi (39:31.420)

very healthy they have some health issues they might actually have these health issues and there's a lot of data proving that it would continue with them they would grow poor health so now social economics you know society development you know you have a country or you know community that actually even even you know ability to to be product

Hetal Baman (39:37.875)

the

Hetal Baman (40:01.115)

you

Wisam Breegi (40:01.340)

if in society so all of these facts it ends up that cripples community so so that's why i went when first rating when you look at you know this solution is of course it's not that simple but when one of the main factors that we know that you can keep the baby healthy for the first few weeks until they get strong enough and then we can continue you know good diet an end

Hetal Baman (40:13.335)

Hetal Baman (40:31.215)

right

Wisam Breegi (40:31.380)

cinations and so forth and then you know you grew up to be healthy one one thing is it you know there is this whole data that came from i guess trying to let's see we have it actually somewhere through the the yeah through the u n you know the sustainable devil

Hetal Baman (40:56.075)

here

Wisam Breegi (41:01.300)

but goals that actually two thousand sixteen so this is you know a few years back and one of them was you know to decrease you know mortality in children under five and when you look at it the under five actually there's a great progress you know that we started because you know good diet you know a little better you know vaccinations and you know clean water and so forth we start you know to do

Hetal Baman (41:05.155)

rat

Hetal Baman (41:16.915)

and

Wisam Breegi (41:31.320)

you know have some break throws and minimise now in non went the other way

Hetal Baman (41:36.695)

right

Hetal Baman (41:40.335)

and oh wow

Wisam Breegi (41:41.980)

it's actually increased and you know it went i think from forty percent to forty seven per cent increase so it is it is first rating when when you see you know this whole picture you put it together and you see we are why we are fighting a losing battle with with all this progress with all these developments

Hetal Baman (41:56.695)

yeah

Hetal Baman (42:12.775)

that makes me think it's almost like why why did the un for the sustainable development goes choose children under five versus new born babies i don't know it's just a question you know just

Wisam Breegi (42:28.260)

i agree i agree i mean it's you know it should be separated it should be now i don't know if there is you know influences if there is you know push back but it definitely and i'll tell you you know i'm involved it's not only medical if it has to do with with you know social economics politics and all

Hetal Baman (42:32.875)

the

Hetal Baman (42:44.815)

yeah

Wisam Breegi (42:57.700)

and i look at you know countries and have you know connections with governments and ministries of health and you know people in a very high level into this around the world and talk to them candidly you know about it and you know there is this lag of you know what to do about it you know how much money to put in immigration you know a lot of people when you think about it why you want to leave you know

Hetal Baman (43:00.035)

right

Wisam Breegi (43:27.580)

if you have you know good economics but part of it is actually if your family is safe if you can actually have a baby that can survive and live and you know so it really affects even immigration if you think about it

Hetal Baman (43:30.455)

yeah

Hetal Baman (43:46.655)

Hetal Baman (43:50.235)

wow it's so interconnected

Wisam Breegi (43:50.420)

absolutely

Hetal Baman (43:55.295)

so you mentioned something about the amount of well the dollars spent even coming back to the u s um for on pre term birth and you said it was more than twenty six point two billion and then you said in the and the linked in post you said the sad reality is that the whole world spent less than eight point six eight dollars and sixty cents per new born per

Wisam Breegi (44:01.220)

yes

Wisam Breegi (44:21.980)

anually yeah an so so this is when you this is where you know the sad kind of think you look at it and you see that we have you know over hundred million babies you know born we three million born and then you look at you know how much actually been purchasing you know new york

Hetal Baman (44:25.095)

yea annually yeah to purchase and maintain new incubators

Wisam Breegi (44:51.760)

incubators and in the end fobushand then you look at it and it's like is this is how we are spending you know our dollars to to actually you know fight something like this and again when when you you see the point i mean licking you know you know article i i guess i put many

Hetal Baman (45:13.515)

when

Wisam Breegi (45:21.740)

facts where you know the cost the cost of the incubators the cost of maintenance you know the manufacturing and if there is incentive even for you know manufacturers to do anything about and there was two main points the takes one is the innovation to is the gross contamination and

Hetal Baman (45:22.275)

Hetal Baman (45:25.515)

yeah

Hetal Baman (45:29.695)

right

Wisam Breegi (45:51.780)

three is basically the electricity so you know you look at it you know these incubators they have to have electricity at all times otherwise will have these stories over and over again with babies you know die i mean literally you have an incubator sitting right there electricity goes for three hours and fifteen babies die it's just you know it's just the saddest story you would hear you know about you know just three

Hetal Baman (45:57.095)

right right

Hetal Baman (46:20.495)

the

Wisam Breegi (46:21.800)

i was and you know they couldn't do anything for these incubators and they kill the babies literally then you would have um these infections that recurrent into these incubators so now we have incubators but then still without losing babies and of course nobody wants to talk about it because you know if you think about it if i say that the incubator is a source of in fact

Hetal Baman (46:24.655)

the

Wisam Breegi (46:51.840)

and then the nice department has to close the department because then they have to clean and you know get rid of of that infection and that's me and they're goin to lose money and they're gonna so nobody wants to talk about that the companies who are developing it i guess they don't know what to do because here's the incubator we are making it better by making it you know

Hetal Baman (47:02.595)

yes right

Hetal Baman (47:18.035)

guess

Wisam Breegi (47:22.020)

complex you know all kinds of things and you know but it's still it is the same ultecology so it's the same old problems that inherited for you know a century and novodiosolved it and that's where it really it makes it as i said you know cash twenty two

Hetal Baman (47:45.935)

right so let's let's look at the bright side so brady scientific has developed a incubator that is disposable i'm gonna i'm just i'm just going to let you

Wisam Breegi (48:00.220)

yes nick it is a nicky yes

Hetal Baman (48:00.395)

talk about it it's called the nicky right is that how you say it the nicky so amazingly innovative i just want you to talk about the design and what you know amazing i just love it

Wisam Breegi (48:15.500)

thank you well this is an effort that really i have to admit probably hundreds of you know people scientists engineers doctors who got to involve you know into either you know designing or materials or even you know giving feed backs into you know what it is and as i said you know from my experience and then you know

Hetal Baman (48:29.435)

Hetal Baman (48:42.435)

yep

Wisam Breegi (48:45.480)

expanding to look into this you know we wanted to solve you know we had problems that we have to check that is solved and we started first with the electricity so we decided that this infant incubator um it is nick which is an unital intensive care incubator m it's a full function actually high tech infant incubator but

Hetal Baman (48:58.235)

yeah

Hetal Baman (49:03.475)

Wisam Breegi (49:15.240)

you know i don't want it to be dependent on regular grade electricity i wanted to have a battery i wanted to work on solar i wanted to work on car so it can be transport which is by the way it's a different machine transport into incubators are different machines from you know regular incubators i wanted to be one i can pick up the baby put them you know in the car hook it to the car and still

Hetal Baman (49:18.735)

no electricity h

Hetal Baman (49:26.335)

Hetal Baman (49:35.135)

Wisam Breegi (49:45.120)

i can service you know give the baby the warmth the ventilation you know even for the therapy until i transformed to the next hospital the other thing is how to get rid of the infection so we went you know really into details of breaking down in incubators where the infection is coming from so we found out like okay you know housing itself it's a source of infection

Wisam Breegi (50:16.320)

the humidifier is a source of infection the ventilation system is a source of infection so how you would actually get rid of all of these you know components and make it you know safe to the baby so the first thing we look at as like how about putting the baby in a disposable housing a single use housing which is you know according to the

Hetal Baman (50:17.035)

h m

Hetal Baman (50:27.495)

Hetal Baman (50:35.255)

Wisam Breegi (50:46.020)

american patriotic association and globally something you know adopted everywhere that between depends even the show you know five to seven days some says four to seven days that you need to take the baby out clean disinfect service the fitting put them back in so we said okay how about we make a single use that only use it for those you know five to seven days you put the baby

Hetal Baman (51:04.495)

m h m

Wisam Breegi (51:15.140)

it's tarnal completely it's air locked it actually be able to house completely the baby inside but it actually works you know you actually attach it to re usable madula which has the heat the humidity the ventilation you know all the electronic components and and so forth so you connected to that so now only the housing is disposable so when you take the baby out

Hetal Baman (51:34.635)

we use

Wisam Breegi (51:45.060)

there's a new baby that disposable piece it actually inexpensive it does all the work it is actually transparent and so forth and you take it out now it's a disposable reticable piece you take it you throw it you put a brand new stir one even for the same baby or a new baby so now we cut literally the source of course contamination

Hetal Baman (52:09.395)

Wisam Breegi (52:15.100)

come diseases you know which is you know that you know disease is acquired you know in the hospital between babies

Hetal Baman (52:26.475)

and now you don't have to pay for the technician you don't have to pay for the cleaning all of that

Wisam Breegi (52:27.200)

exactly cleaning materials time now you want to clean you have ten incubators in your department and you have ten babies in you can't have ten babies in all times because three or four of them they have to be rotated taken out you know to be clean disinfected and so forth so always you are missing few incubators not in function so reality don't have ten always functioning maybe seven you know because always there's few of them

out to be serviced clean disinfected and so forth so in this case you know you don't it's right there you know you take the old one dispose it you know and then you put brand new one stir put the baby in a completely healthy environment no cross contamination know nothing so you know these little things we try to develope work on it one other things you know

Hetal Baman (52:58.795)

hmm

Hetal Baman (53:04.655)

this case

Wisam Breegi (53:27.080)

we did we looked at it like okay now i have the baby in and i want this baby to be able to get the best health care you know available there if you know we'll be able to do it so how we're going to do that so what we did we developed a whole till a medicine kind of component into it so now we can actually passively the machine collects data

as you are putting you know the baby in this incubator and everything is connected to the cloud with a unique idea number and what this would do would actually create you know a baby is now in hondoras and you know lasse town in the north and i'm sitting in boston i can take that code

Hetal Baman (54:26.955)

sit right

Wisam Breegi (54:27.080)

look at it i can immediately identify the country the city and where the hospital and the baby with a number you know so there's privacy so now suddenly i can collect all this data i can look at regents you know continent country and i can see what kind of treatment how long the treatment took what kind of of cases we're having so there's a spike in

certain you know cases and in certain area we will immediately see that spike in this region which is by the way this is data nobody has so now we go back to the motibidity kind of thing and the cost so now the government in set you know wasting time throwing money on things that probably not doing much i can analyze this data and i can say okay you know this is what we need this is the cases that prevalent in this area

this is what we see this is how much we need to pay attention to it so we put all of that in this machine so now it became really you know as i said you know the frati of the desert that that has everything you know but we didn't that's why it took us actually a long time because we were looking you know maticulously to every single little detail you know what we need to do about it

Hetal Baman (55:34.875)

so we

Hetal Baman (55:52.535)

Wisam Breegi (55:57.480)

and this is why you know and this is how we actually came to you know engineers been working you know for years now so many versions we try to actually up date and develop and we're trying to get it to market

Hetal Baman (56:16.335)

and i just want to say that you had your first infant being treated by the nick that was in november of last year how did that make you feel because that would have been

Wisam Breegi (56:22.240)

yes

Wisam Breegi (56:25.280)

oh my god that was it was i mean you know i'm very cautious dinner into you know that's why probably delays we had teams you know working on the regulatory pieces and you know the component and dan have spent a lot of times and into the and one of the lead engineers into you know the electronics and you know the electrical component part of it and he's a professor actually in turkey so

Hetal Baman (56:34.995)

Wisam Breegi (56:55.020)

work is international we've been working with several countries and and you know recently we were actually in turkey and there was this amazing support even from the turkish government you know trying to really get us to to build you know start this technology you know over there so this professor who actually had a baby born was to warn you know the end of covid and there was some spike

Hetal Baman (56:55.755)

ess

Hetal Baman (56:58.075)

Wisam Breegi (57:24.940)

actually in the area of coved cases so they went to the hospital they had you know the baby delivered but he was not very happy because there was some you know cases reported in the hospital for covid and he was worried about his wife and new born and it happened that he was working on the phototherapy that we've developed and as i said this or phototherapy is a very high intensity which was tested so many

Hetal Baman (57:30.135)

Wisam Breegi (57:54.980)

times and it works on you know twelve volts it's not even you know regular activity so it can convert and can you know and even actually he's he was he is developing a remote app control on the photothorapy so you can actually have home used the doctors or nurses can actually control and monitor you know the babies and so when when you know he saw the situation in the hospital he asked

Hetal Baman (58:02.095)

wow

Hetal Baman (58:13.375)

oh yes

Wisam Breegi (58:25.100)

and i said you know do i have to keep my you know wife and the baby here i said well yeah because you know your baby is really you know need like five days of treatment you know because there's some some severe case of jondas and he immediately thought about it you know i'm working on this innovative technology of you know and i've tested it myself you know can i use it and the doctor said well i mean you know i don't know the technology

if you are sure if it has you know the problem you know wave length you know flight and all of that and on a safe sure and he said you know what i tested it i know t is safe because i've been working on it and so i'm the guy who is you know doing it and he said all right exactly exactly nd he decided that you know what i'll take it home and he took a wife and and the baby home and he literally

Hetal Baman (59:12.715)

yeah

Hetal Baman (59:16.795)

especially on your own baby too right

Wisam Breegi (59:25.000)

i mean the device was even not fully built with like you know the box and you know nice containers only the light itself you know wires hanging and he made it like a make shift kind of stand you know over the baby and within three days the baby actually cleared from below jondas and even the doctors were completely surprised about the results like wow you know this is a great device you bring it to us

Hetal Baman (59:31.955)

right

Hetal Baman (59:37.095)

h h

Hetal Baman (59:52.835)

wow

Wisam Breegi (59:55.200)

this was so it really so he called me and i didn't know actually about this and i was traveling and i came in and he said this is what i did i was like are you crazy you know we were still you know and he said well i mean you've been working true i mean this specifically the photos while been working on for like more than three years and he has been working like for almost a year you know and he said i know what

Hetal Baman (59:57.695)

we need some of that

Hetal Baman (01:00:11.595)

Hetal Baman (01:00:23.255)

Wisam Breegi (01:00:25.140)

i know it's good i know the wave length you know and all of that so it really delivers it treats and he said you know what i'll tell you it works very good you know it turns up you know

Hetal Baman (01:00:27.375)

and he i know

Hetal Baman (01:00:40.275)

flows up that is so funny but so inspiring you know for yourself like you're like one like i actually treated a baby using my device like

Wisam Breegi (01:00:44.500)

i know

Wisam Breegi (01:00:49.660)

absolutely absolutely you know i've been waiting for for this moment you know for a long time and as a scary editors because i feel responsibility i mean literally you have to remember this story it's my own son so even you know the light thinking of putting a baby in this incubator that i developed i spent you know all my know time and you know the deck

Hetal Baman (01:01:06.535)

right

Hetal Baman (01:01:09.715)

right

Hetal Baman (01:01:17.135)

yeah

Wisam Breegi (01:01:19.720)

of my life you know trying to develope this and it's still i feel like the responsibility is so huge that i have to be perfect because this is you know a life of a baby so medical yeah but as i said you know people probably say it in a way that they you know it's a medical device you know you work in the field that's it for me it's personal and and that's why i you know very you know

Hetal Baman (01:01:27.915)

Hetal Baman (01:01:30.435)

right

Hetal Baman (01:01:35.095)

it's a medical device you know

Hetal Baman (01:01:47.515)

right

Wisam Breegi (01:01:49.820)

said you know all about it trying to really be sure that everything works you know the way that it should be and i have to admit i mean as i said you know i know it works i know thephototherapy was fantastic but i never have the courage to say okay you know what it does and when when you know he did and he came back and he said look you know the doctors said you need five days three days to be

Hetal Baman (01:01:53.515)

Wisam Breegi (01:02:19.580)

was cleared and it actually looks very healthy and it just you know worked fantastic it was so simple to use easy he said literally i have the app you know on my phone you know and i can control you know the whole thing and my baby at home even when i go to the university he said you know literally i can control it so it was definitely a good story and i'm waiting you know hopefully soon you know the time that we will have you know

Hetal Baman (01:02:25.775)

yet

Wisam Breegi (01:02:49.680)

funding to to you know at least rolled out to the hospitals to do some some studies

Hetal Baman (01:02:53.055)

enough

Hetal Baman (01:03:00.595)

well that is just so that is just such an amazing story thank you for sharing that

Wisam Breegi (01:03:04.120)

absolutely

Hetal Baman (01:03:09.475)

well tom thank you it was such a pleasure to have you on the podcast um i just want to ask you one more question what can people do to support you on your mission

Wisam Breegi (01:03:09.820)

oh thank you it's a pleasure of talking to you it's fun

Wisam Breegi (01:03:23.580)

well i mean as i said you know our mission is it's basically to to really it's it's not probably about the money although you know financially economically this device is very profitable you know the way it was designed because we spend a lot of time to decrease the cost of manufacturing you know components on that but we did not stop short because of that to put the best of the technologies that available today you know

Hetal Baman (01:03:48.695)

Wisam Breegi (01:03:54.100)

into this and a lot of people who support us to to actually come you know this far now we are getting very close to literally get it into into market and we have our team ready we have everything ready so you know financially i think this is where you know i don't know you know investors or angel investors or somebody who believes into the mission that actually

Hetal Baman (01:03:56.155)

Hetal Baman (01:04:03.575)

Wisam Breegi (01:04:23.320)

and support us to get it into the market and as i said this is not a technology that was developed in six months or a year or two and as a lot of problems this is a technology that wealth out of you know dedicated you know hundreds of people who were actually working into it nd i'm hoping that soon we can you know between raise you know the

Wisam Breegi (01:04:54.560)

awareness about the problem and where we actually managed to find a solution you know a solution that literally will be revolutionized the infant incubator industry and i won't probably where we leave the head of the otology society in turkey fantastic woman very smart and one of the leading experts in

Hetal Baman (01:05:00.735)

right right

Hetal Baman (01:05:06.855)

Hetal Baman (01:05:16.035)

Wisam Breegi (01:05:23.400)

ology um an we talked to her we visit her actually in person and on cara and when she looked at the data and then you know the testing and the device she said i'll tell you you know if i have this machine comes to the hospital the every single incubator that i have because he said i studied literally you know all the problems that you try

Hetal Baman (01:05:48.735)

Wisam Breegi (01:05:53.340)

to solve and we couldn't solve them and so we had to work around and make procedures and protocols trying to minimize in said you're basically just clear of the path for us to do our job stead of getting busy trying to patch you know these holes into into the the the the technology the ultecnology so this is you know a big deal when it comes from from an expert you know so i'm hoping that

Hetal Baman (01:05:53.555)

Hetal Baman (01:06:04.795)

hm wow

Wisam Breegi (01:06:23.320)

t will be able to deliver this soon

Wisam Breegi (01:06:29.380)

thank you

Hetal Baman (01:06:29.595)

well i know that you will be um yeah this is this is this has been an amazing conversation thank you so much for your time

Wisam Breegi (01:06:35.240)

thank you thank you very much appreciate it thank you

Hetal BamanApril 7, 2023

Full Episode Transcripts

Why Are Infants Dying From Preventable Causes?